SOUTH WALES DERBY
Last weekend Cardiff City lost against Swansea, it’s now been eight matches since Cardiff City earned a victory against their South Wales rivals. Therefore, I thought it may be worth seeing who the bogey sides are of clubs in the Football League. The way I define bogey side is quite simple, it’s the team that the club has played the most times without recording a victory.
Swansea City have gone eight games unbeaten against Cardiff. But are they their true "bogey side"?
Thankfully for Cardiff City they do not face the ignominy of having their bogey side being Swansea City as they have gone eleven matches without beating either Millwall or Arsenal. It’s interesting to see both Millwall and Swansea being sides that Cardiff rarely win against, does the threat of trouble somehow cause Cardiff City players to play badly?
Oddly, Wrexham are Swansea City’s bogey club, so there is a Welsh factor to the bogey side debate!
MANCHESTER UNITED
Unsurprisingly Manchester United feature heavily on the list, most notably with Aston Villa. The Villains have now gone twenty-four matches without beating the Champions, and even that was only a League Cup victory against a youthful Manchester United side. For the record the game finished 3-0, Ian Taylor, Steve Stone and Julian Joachim scored for Villa. The likes of Michael Twiss, Danny Higginbotham and Ronnie Wallwork played for United.
Other clubs that feature Manchester United as their bogey club are the following. [Team followed by number of matches without a win]
- Birmingham City (22)
- Tottenham Hotspur (20)
- Charlton Athletic (18)
- Newcastle United (16)
- Sunderland (12)
- Reading (11)
- QPR (11)
- Middlesbrough (10)
- Luton Town (10)
- Millwall (1o) – have also gone 10 matches without beating Spurs.
- Sheffield United (6)
- Arsenal (4)
It does seem to be an odd anomaly that Arsenal & Spurs, the three major North East clubs and Villa & Brum all have the same side as their bogey side. I suppose it underlines the dominance of Manchester United more than anything else!
TWENTY SIX MATCHES
South coast club Portsmouth have gone an unbelievable twenty-six matches without beating Chelsea, the last time they recorded a victory over the London club was almost fifty years ago (1-0 in a League Cup tie) in December 1960. Everton are another club who have a dreadful record against Chelsea, going twenty-three matches without winning. However, unlike Pompey their win is relatively recently, coming as recent as November 2000 when Danny Cadamateri and Kevin Campbell handed Everton a 2-1 victory. For the record Samuel Dalla Bona scored Chelsea’s goal in hte match.
THE REST
What is perhaps more interesting than clubs not being able to beat superpowers such as Chelsea and Manchester United are the stories from the Football League where (for example) Bristol City have failed to beat Nottingham Forest in twenty-two attempts. Rotherham United are another club who have failed to beat Forest – now running at no wins in their last fourteen matches.
Bradford City have gone sixteen matches since they had the bragging rights in their Yorkshire “derby” against Sheffield United, whilst Bournemouth have failed to beat another Yorkshire side Huddersfield in fifteen attempts. Blackpool have struggled in their orange/old gold clash against Wolverhampton Wanderers, they haven’t won the fixture in thirteen attempts (last win came in the late 60s).
Statistics follow… I hope they are correct, but there’s a lot of data to get through so there could well be mistakes.. If there are, please let me know.
RAW STATISTICS
Portsmouth
Chelsea 26
Aston Villa
Manchester United 24
Everton
Chelsea 23
Birmingham City
Manchester United 22
Tottenham Hotspur
Manchester United 20
Walsall
Manchester City 19
Exeter City
Northampton Town 19
Bristol Rovers
West Ham United 17
West Bromwich Albion
Liverpool 17
Leicester City
Arsenal 17
Bradford City
Sheffield United 16
Port Vale
Nottingham Forest 16
Halifax Town
Cardiff City 16
Grimsby Town
Bolton Wanderers 16
Lincoln City
Birmingham City 15
York City
Bristol City 15
Bournemouth
Huddersfield Town 15
Plymouth Argyle
Tottenham Hotspur 15
Huddersfield Town
Burnley 14
Rotherham United
Nottingham Forest 14
Crystal Palace
Bolton Wanderers 14
Hereford United
Walsall 14
Oxford United
Charlton Athletic 14
Hartlepool United
Barnsley 13
Swindon Town
Ipswich Town 13
Darlington
Chesterfield 13
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Aston Villa 13
Arsenal 13
Blackpool
Wolverhampton Wanderers 13
Bolton Wanderers
Chelsea 13
Derby County
Arsenal 13
Doncaster Rovers
Blackburn Rovers 13
Notts County
Liverpool 12
Cambridge United
Huddersfield Town 12
Mansfield Town
Burnley 12
Torquay United
Swindon Town 12
Brentford
Watford 12
Bristol Rovers 12
Bury
Reading 12
Oldham Athletic
Newcastle United 12
Shrewsbury Town
Scunthorpe United 11
Stockport County
Nottingham Forest 11
Luton Town 11
Cardiff City
Millwall 11
Arsenal 11
Queens Park Rangers
Manchester United 11
Nottingham Forest
Walsall 11
Aldershot Town
Millwall 11
Hereford United 11
Leyton Orient
Ipswich Town 11
Crewe Alexandra
Birmingham City 11
Burnley
Manchester City 11
Peterborough United
Bristol City 11
Wrexham
Bristol City 11
Wigan Athletic
Arsenal 10
Barnsley
Coventry City 10
Carlisle United
Cardiff City 10
Northampton Town
Southend United 10
Ipswich Town
Watford 10
Chesterfield
Wigan Athletic 10
Tranmere Rovers
Nottingham Forest 10
West Ham United
Chelsea 9
Stoke City
Liverpool 9
Chester City
Hereford United 9
Southampton
Bolton Wanderers 9
Coventry City
Crystal Palace 9
Sheffield Wednesday
Manchester City 9
Watford
Manchester United 9
Everton 9
Norwich City
Sheffield Wednesday 9
Arsenal 9
Fulham
West Ham United 9
Swansea City
Bolton Wanderers 9
Grimsby Town 9
Wrexham 9
Blackburn Rovers
Chelsea 9
Manchester City
Chelsea 9
Preston North End
Aston Villa 9
Rochdale
Oldham Athletic 9
Scarborough
Hartlepool United 9
Lincoln City 9
Cheltenham Town
Scunthorpe United 8
Wycombe Wanderers
Preston North End 8
Cheltenham Town 8
Gillingham
Reading 8
Sheffield United 8
Macclesfield Town
Northampton Town 8
Exeter City 8
Hull City
Portsmouth 8
Brighton & Hove Albion
Oxford United 8
Scunthorpe United
Darlington 7
Leeds United 7
Queens Park Rangers 7
Stoke City 7
Mansfield Town 7
Colchester United
Crewe Alexandra 7
Barnet
Leyton Orient 7
Walsall 7
Leeds United
Cardiff City 7
Liverpool 7
Sheffield United 7
Yeovil Town
Colchester United 6
Accrington Stanley
Notts County 6
Tranmere Rovers 6
Chelsea
Bristol City 6
Kidderminster Harriers
Northwich Victoria 6
Dagenham & Redbridge
Accrington Stanley 6
Boston United
Shrewsbury Town 6
Rushden & Diamonds
Swansea City 6
Arsenal
Manchester United 4
Manchester United
Wimbledon 3
Liverpool 3
Grimsby Town 3
Lincoln City 3
Liverpool
Blackpool 3
Everton 3
Chelsea 3
Arsenal 3
Birmingham City 3
Preston North End 8
Cheltenham Town 8Bury
Reading 12Rotherham United
Nottingham Forest 14Dagenham & Redbridge
Accrington Stanley 6Darlington
Chesterfield 13
Bournemouth
Huddersfield Town 15
Rochdale
Oldham Athletic 9
Accrington Stanley
Notts County 6
Tranmere Rovers 6
Bradford City
Sheffield United 16
Shrewsbury Town
Scunthorpe United 11
Huddersfield Town
Burnley 14
Oldham Athletic
Newcastle United 12
Hull City
Portsmouth 8
Blackpool
Wolverhampton Wanderers 13
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Aston Villa 13
Arsenal 13
Manchester United
MK Dons (formerly Wimbledon) 3
Liverpool 3
Grimsby Town 3
Lincoln City 3
Barnsley
Coventry City 10
Preston North End
Aston Villa 9
Barnet
Leyton Orient 7
Walsall 7
Carlisle United
Cardiff City 10
Yeovil Town
Colchester United 6
Stockport County
Nottingham Forest 11
Luton Town 11
Leeds United
Cardiff City 7
Liverpool 7
Sheffield United 7
Cardiff City
Millwall 11
Arsenal 11
Plymouth Argyle
Tottenham Hotspur 15
Swindon Town
Ipswich Town 13
Brighton & Hove Albion
Oxford United 8
Bolton Wanderers
Chelsea 13
Wigan Athletic
Arsenal 10
Derby County
Arsenal 13
Ipswich Town
Watford 10
Coventry City
Crystal Palace 9
Sheffield Wednesday
Manchester City 9
Queens Park Rangers
Manchester United 11
Watford
Manchester United 9
Everton 9
Norwich City
Sheffield Wednesday 9
Arsenal 9
Nottingham Forest
Walsall 11
Northampton Town
Southend United 10
Bristol Rovers
West Ham United 17
Fulham
West Ham United 9
Chelsea
Bristol City 6
Exeter City
Northampton Town 19
Brentford
Watford 12
Bristol Rovers 12
Colchester United
Crewe Alexandra 7
Leyton Orient
Ipswich Town 11
West Bromwich Albion
Liverpool 17
Gillingham
Reading 8
Sheffield United 8
Macclesfield Town
Northampton Town 8
Exeter City 8
Chester City
Hereford United 9
Port Vale
Nottingham Forest 16
Morecambe
Yeovil Town 9
Southampton
Bolton Wanderers 9
Chesterfield
Wigan Athletic 10
MK Dons (formerly Wimbledon)
Coventry City 9
Southend United
MK Dons (formerly Wimbledon) 9
Hartlepool United
Barnsley 13
Crewe Alexandra
Birmingham City 11
Swansea City
Bolton Wanderers 9
Grimsby Town 9
Wrexham 9
Blackburn Rovers
Chelsea 9
Manchester City
Chelsea 9
Scunthorpe United
Darlington 7
Leeds United 7
Queens Park Rangers 7
Stoke City 7
Mansfield Town 7
Leicester City
Arsenal 17
Hereford United
Walsall 14
Liverpool
Blackpool 3
Everton 3
Chelsea 3
Arsenal 3
Birmingham City 3
Doncaster Rovers
Blackburn Rovers 13
Burnley
Manchester City 11
Notts County
Liverpool 12
Aldershot Town
Millwall 11
Hereford United 11
Grimsby Town
Bolton Wanderers 16
West Ham United
Chelsea 9
Stoke City
Liverpool 9
Tranmere Rovers
Nottingham Forest 10
Walsall
Manchester City 19
Lincoln City
Birmingham City 15
Cheltenham Town
Scunthorpe United 8
Peterborough United
Bristol City 11
Crystal Palace
Bolton Wanderers 14
Wrexham
Bristol City 11
Mansfield Town
Burnley 12
Torquay United
Swindon Town 12
Boston United
Shrewsbury Town 6
Rushden & Diamonds
Swansea City 6
Oxford United
Charlton Athletic 14
Cambridge United
Huddersfield Town 12
Kidderminster Harriers
Northwich Victoria 6
York City
Bristol City 15
Halifax Town
Cardiff City 16
Scarborough
Hartlepool United 9
Lincoln City 9
Posted by Lanterne Rouge on November 14, 2009 at 2:38 am
Fascinating stuff. Wolves must wince at their long run of non-success against Midlands rivals Villa. Man United may be Reading’s bogey club, but the Royals actually have a pretty respectable record against the Red Devils, especially when one takes into account the wealth gap. I believe that the Royals have either drawn or won almost half their encounters against the Old Trafford club (although the win stands alone). In the recent Premier League seasons, Reading managed 3 draws against United in league and cup.
The really interesting cases on the list are those where the bogey club is of a lower status – so Cardiff’s bad run against Millwall is baffling. Ditto Chelsea’s torment at the hands of Bristol City, although that perhaps serves to remind us of Chelsea’s real standing in the game before Roman’s millions warped our perspective.
Posted by Steven on November 14, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I think you’re spot on, I posted it late at night, there’s only so much time I could go through the results. I think it’s very harsh to call Manchester United’s anyone’s bogey club really due to their superiority of recent years. As you point out it’s when the club is of a lower stature or from a lower league that it gets interesting.
When Cardiff have been in the same division as Millwall they’ve often been the better side, in the late 80s and early 90s they were far more successful than Cardiff. It’s only recently the roles have been reversed.
For the record the sides after Manchester United that are bogey clubs to Reading are:
- Portsmouth (7 games without winning)
- Blackburn Rovers (7 games without winning)
Posted by Lanterne Rouge on November 15, 2009 at 4:13 am
We never beat Pompey – even when they haven’t been very good, they have beaten us and when they have been good, like two seasons again, they put SEVEN past us. You are right that Millwall have had a decent last twenty years or so so have probably tended to beat Bluebirds when they have been in the ascendancy.
Posted by Lloyd on November 16, 2009 at 9:34 pm
An excellent post that I’ve discussed with other Argyle fans here: http://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?p=614345#614345. One thing that’s come from this is that it’s been 20 games and 90 odd years since Argyle last won at Stoke. Of those 20 games, one was a 9-0 tonking in 60/61.
Also, another Plymouth Argyle factoid: in the 9 attempts that we’ve had, Argyle have never beaten Arsenal. As well as the Gunners, we have failed to record victories against the following: Accrington (2 games); Dag & Red (2 games); Gateshead, New Brighton, South Shields and Worcester City (all 1 game).
Posted by Steven on November 16, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Cheers for your kind words. I had noticed a few hits coming from pasoti, I am however far too scared to go there as I did used to frequent St James Park as a student whilst at Exeter University. I fear I wouldn’t last long!
The guy on the thread who mentions Football League South is correct, only FA Cup and League fixtures were used (not Football League South). The danger of posting a geeky blogpost like this is that someone is always likely to out-geek you!
Posted by Lloyd on November 22, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Frequenting St James? Oh dear. And with Argyle only an hour down the road… I suppose that any football, is football nonetheless!